Rodigan’s World - interesting snippet from Rodigan's blog

[Soul Adventurer]

"Happy New Year to all reggae music fans worldwide and let us hope that the glorious recordings and song-writing that once emulated from Jamaica will find a new outlet and that the singers and musicians who wish to play real, authentic reggae will blow us away with amazing, new, original ‘sounds and pressure’ for this year."

"Whilst Jamaica becomes more obsessed with ‘Island Pop’ or ‘Jamaican Fusion’ music we respectfully ask the young musicians and producers to remember that we can get hip hop, r n b, rap, dance and house beats from America and Europe so we look to Jamaica for Jamaican music." (DAVID RODIGAN, JANUARY 2012)

I'm not fully familiar with recent developments of reggae in Jamaica. I do know that some of Sean Paul's recent popular work sounds so much like Euro dance, it would be a leap of faith to describe it as 'reggae' (as diverse as reggae is!).

I agree with what Rodigan is saying to an extent. The dj Scotty pointed out that in the 60s/70s, ska/rocksteady and reggae musicians were very influenced by American music but steeped enough in a Jamaican approach not to be overwhelmed by it. At the same time isn't it natural for each new generation to bring new ideas to the table?

[UK Warrior]

Jamaican music has always been heavily influenced by America, but as you implied, with a Jamaican twist. If the younger artists are starting to make RnB type music in Jamaica now then that's a worrying direction for them to think about going in. You can't compete with the Yanks in that genre and why would you want to? It's awful, sanitised, soulless music. I haven't listened to a Sean Paul album since Dutty Rock because of his RnB leanings. I guess though, that for every reggae fan they lose, they gain several more RnB fans. So from their point of view it can only be a good thing, commercially. Artistically I'm not convinced.

[Soul Adventurer]

Originally Posted by UK Warrior

Jamaican music has always been heavily influenced by America, but as you implied, with a Jamaican twist. If the younger artists are starting to make RnB type music in Jamaica now then that's a worrying direction for them to think about going in. You can't compete with the Yanks in that genre and why would you want to? It's awful, sanitised, soulless music. I haven't listened to a Sean Paul album since Dutty Rock because of his RnB leanings. I guess though, that for every reggae fan they lose, they gain several more RnB fans. So from their point of view it can only be a good thing, commercially. Artistically I'm not convinced.

Good points, Kelvin. It's similar to the influence of basketball in the Caribbean in general, the way that youngsters in the region didn't have the same aspiration to be cricketers - hence the dodgy form of the West Indies for most of the past two decades! As you mentioned, RnB and hip hop are essentially the American's territory, regardless of how universal both styles are. Ironically quite a few American rappers have Jamaican backgrounds (KRS ONE, Busta Rhymes) and the closest thing to some of that conscious 'neo soul' (Lauryn Hill, Erykah Badu, India Arie) is Marley. Marley's spirit is all over Lauryn hill's work.

Politics and culture probably play an important role. The social climate in Jamaica in the 60s and 70s was more geared towards the island's independence politically and culturally, which made it easier for the indigenous talent on the island to come through. There was also less of an American influence in the culture and a strong rasta element in the lifestyle. That started to change in the eighties - when the new government of Seaga was more US friendly and American tv was becoming more widespread. So in a lot of ways, it was inevitable that the generation of artists coming of age now would lean more towards America.

[UK Warrior]

Yes, Iamani. They did the same thing in the 50's, before independence, with the influence American radio stations had on Jamaican artists. Hence the (traditional) R&B and Jazz influence on Jamaican music around the same time as Mento etc. You're right, Jamaica was more introverted in the 60's & 70's which undoubtedly allowed Jamaican music to find it's very own identity in Rocksteady and then Reggae.

My dad made the same point about the youngsters all wanting to play basketball instead of cricket, contributing to the relative demise of his beloved Windies. Or the 'Worst Indies' as they've become known!

[JB40]

I think it cuts both ways.

when we first went to america, back in the early eighties, R&B was very different. It was about dressing up and straightening hair. everything was smooth and slick.

over time, R&B developed a rougher edge. Buster rhymes had a big influence at that time, and ragga and roughneck styles came with the gangsta lifestyle.

back in the days of alexander o' neil and the club crooners that rough-neck style would be avoided. Black america didn't really know what reggae was, our first US audience came mainly from the colleges. Now, when we play the states, the audience is much more mixed. Mainly because of immigration. We get africans and polynesians and south americans.

reggae has been assimilated into the culture of the kind of music we are talking about. timberland sound like sly and robbie to me, before them R&B productions were smooth and filled up with strings and all kinds of gloss and polish. Timberland changed that, and i'm convinced that it was reggae culture and sound that they were inspired by.

the sad part is that there isn't that same authentic sound being made in jamaica.

back in the day jamaica saw england as the 'mother country' because of empire. There are more protestant churches per head of population in jamaica than anywhere else in the world. with independence, and the growth of world-wide broadcasting and communication technology, that connection to britain faded. Black american culture became dominant, and that's where all the role models come from.

with all the good and the bad that comes with it.

and cricket is part of the erosion of influence of empire.

why should kids now be interested in an arcane sport played by posh white people ???

[steven creamer]

What attracted me to Reggae was the primitive sound and conscious lyrics. The Rude Boy experience in Jamaica spread worldwide, and Marley was crowned King. I love "Lovers Rock" "Root Rock". I love old time Reggae, but I think now that we are becoming the "old men and old women" of Reggae. Thats not a bad thing, after all even 50's music is still popular. The newer stars of Reggae are doing more a fusion of rap/hip hop/and Dj'ing. Lets face it, times change and music changes with it. I think that Steven Marley and Ziggy Marley have changed up a bit, but their roots are still in the Rock Steady genre. There is still plenty of Roots music to listen to, but times are a changing. Maybe soon it will turn around with the next generation and they will "mash it up". Reggae in my heart, reggae in my mind, reggae till I die.

Stevie 2fingerz

[UK Warrior]

Yes, JB. Timbaland and Dre are two producers who have without question been influenced by reggae. No doubt about it. If it wasn't for reggae's influence on modern dance music, including Hip-Hop then we wouldn't all need sub-woofers to experience our music these days. Before the emergence of Hip-Hop, hi-fi's were made for people to listen to rock and pop music on. I could NEVER get enough bass out of my hi-Fi as a kid, because manufacturers didn't take the needs of reggae fans into consideration at the time.

There are positive examples of musical cross pollination all over the world and that's how music evolves, isn't it? If, however, Jamaica were to completely lose it's musical identity due to the fact that the new generation of musicians and producers were simply chasing the U.S dollar then that would be a real crying shame. Any genre needs fresh, new material for it to flourish on an ongoing basis. Otherwise it just becomes a nostalgia movement, becoming ever-more niche with each passing year.

[JB40]

what he said.

i was having a discussion with the groove corp boys about music a little while back, and we all agreed that , in our lifetime, the two most innovative and inspiring genre's of music were reggae [back in the seventies], and drum and bass in the 90's. Both forms of music I feel I have a very strong emotional attachment to. of course its a lot to do with being in a time and place, and where you are in your life. D&B wouldn't exist without reggae of course, but it still unique in it's own way. And what about dub-step ? That sounds just like reggae when you take all the silly beeps and synth growls off.

[UK Warrior]

JB, I'm a massive fan of Dubstep. More so than D&B, which was all a bit frantic for my ears. OK in small doses though. I could listen to Dubstep for hours, but I'm not so sure that my neighbours would share the same enthusiasm after a while. The GetDarker compilations are excellent in quality (track choice, production and overall mastering quality) and I'd highly recommend them.

[Soul Adventurer]

Originally Posted by UK Warrior

Yes, Iamani. They did the same thing in the 50's, before independence, with the influence American radio stations had on Jamaican artists. Hence the (traditional) R&B and Jazz influence on Jamaican music around the same time as Mento etc. You're right, Jamaica was more introverted in the 60's & 70's which undoubtedly allowed Jamaican music to find it's very own identity in Rocksteady and then Reggae.

My dad made the same point about the youngsters all wanting to play basketball instead of cricket, contributing to the relative demise of his beloved Windies. Or the 'Worst Indies' as they've become known!

That American influence has always been there of course, and it's hard to imagine Jamican music without the impact of artists from the USA. But the needs of the Jamaican audience in the past demanded that the musicians create something that more reflected Jamaica, than to just copy sounds from abroad. The way that the musicians stopped imitating rhythm and blues and created ska for the sound system crowd, as one example. That's now changed.

The cricket point I'll come to in another post, as JB has raised an interesting angle there.